羅馬人是否抱怨過希臘對拉丁語的影響？
Did the Romans complain about the Greek influence on Latin?
譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友：保守的羅馬人，特別是在羅馬征服希臘之前，抱怨的是希臘文化，而不是語言本身。
讓我們明確一件事，希臘及其文化在羅馬崛起之前的幾個世紀就占據(jù)了意大利的主導地位。他們把這個地區(qū)稱為大希臘......
正文翻譯
Carl Richard Archie
Conservative Romans, especially before Rome conquered Greece, complained about Greek culture, not the language, per se.
Let us be clear about one thing, Greece and its culture were dominant in Italy, centuries before Rome’s rise. They called this Greater Greece:
保守的羅馬人，特別是在羅馬征服希臘之前，抱怨的是希臘文化，而不是語言本身。
讓我們明確一件事，希臘及其文化在羅馬崛起之前的幾個世紀就占據(jù)了意大利的主導地位。他們把這個地區(qū)稱為大希臘。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Conservative Romans, especially before Rome conquered Greece, complained about Greek culture, not the language, per se.
Let us be clear about one thing, Greece and its culture were dominant in Italy, centuries before Rome’s rise. They called this Greater Greece:
保守的羅馬人，特別是在羅馬征服希臘之前，抱怨的是希臘文化，而不是語言本身。
讓我們明確一件事，希臘及其文化在羅馬崛起之前的幾個世紀就占據(jù)了意大利的主導地位。他們把這個地區(qū)稱為大希臘。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
The map underestimates. Naples was settled by Greeks so Greek influence extended further north than illustrated. The Romans claimed one of their kings had Greek origins. The Etruscans and Romans adopted Greek letters and numbers very early.
During the regal era and the early Republic, Romans sent officials to Greece for advice. Livy''s History of Rome:
Commissioners were sent to Athens with instructions to make a copy of the famous laws of Solon, and to investigate the institutions, customs, and laws of other Greek States.
While Rome was a village of mud huts, Greco-Italians were building things like these:
（地圖）
地圖低估了希臘文化的影響。那不勒斯是由希臘人定居的，所以希臘文化的影響延伸到比地圖上展示的更北。羅馬人聲稱他們的一位國王有希臘血統(tǒng)。伊特魯里亞人和羅馬人很早就采用了希臘字母和數(shù)字。
在王政時期和早期共和國時期，羅馬派官員到希臘尋求建議。利維的《羅馬史》中寫道:
向雅典派遣專員，指示他們復制著名的索倫法律，并調(diào)查其他希臘城邦的體制、習俗和法律。
而當羅馬還是泥屋村莊時，希臘-意大利人正在建造像這樣的東西：
During the regal era and the early Republic, Romans sent officials to Greece for advice. Livy''s History of Rome:
Commissioners were sent to Athens with instructions to make a copy of the famous laws of Solon, and to investigate the institutions, customs, and laws of other Greek States.
While Rome was a village of mud huts, Greco-Italians were building things like these:
（地圖）
地圖低估了希臘文化的影響。那不勒斯是由希臘人定居的，所以希臘文化的影響延伸到比地圖上展示的更北。羅馬人聲稱他們的一位國王有希臘血統(tǒng)。伊特魯里亞人和羅馬人很早就采用了希臘字母和數(shù)字。
在王政時期和早期共和國時期，羅馬派官員到希臘尋求建議。利維的《羅馬史》中寫道:
向雅典派遣專員，指示他們復制著名的索倫法律，并調(diào)查其他希臘城邦的體制、習俗和法律。
而當羅馬還是泥屋村莊時，希臘-意大利人正在建造像這樣的東西：
When Rome was very small (perhaps 30,000 people), Taranto’s population exceeded 300,000:
Rome was very poor. However, Romans were tough. Even while surrounded by giants, they remained independent. However, even 2,360 years later, you can sense a certain resentment towards their richer neighbors.
When Romans went to Campania and they saw how the Etruscans/Greeks lived, they expressed a fierce resentment: Livy''s History of Rome
當羅馬非常小（可能只有3萬人）時，塔蘭托的人口已超過30萬。羅馬很貧窮，但羅馬人很堅強。即使被巨人包圍，他們?nèi)匀槐３知毩ⅰＨ欢?，即使?360年后的今天，你仍然能感受到他們對富裕鄰國的一種怨恨。當羅馬人去了坎帕尼亞并看到了伊特魯里亞人/希臘人的生活方式時，他們表達了強烈的不滿情緒：《羅馬史》。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Why should people like the Campanians who were incapable of defending either their possessions or themselves enjoy the most fertile territory in Italy, and a city well worthy of its territory, in preference to a victorious army who had driven off the Samnites from it by their sweat and blood? Was it just that these people who had surrendered themselves into their power should be enjoying that fertile and delightful country while they, wearied with warfare, were struggling with the arid and pestilential soil round the City, or suffering the ruinous consequences of an ever-growing interest which were awaiting them in Rome?"
The Roman city elders claimed their poverty made them strong and tough. Well, you get the idea.
Conservative Romans believed Greek culture brought decadence, verbosity, laziness and softness. Even so, educated Romans spoke and wrote Greek.
為什么像坎帕尼亞人這樣無力保護自己財產(chǎn)的人可以享受意大利最肥沃的土地和一座配得上這片土地的城市，而勝利的軍隊卻要在干旱和瘟疫肆虐的土地上掙扎，或者忍受在羅馬等待他們的日益增長的利息所帶來的毀滅性后果呢？這些人投降并放棄力量，卻享受了那富饒美妙的鄉(xiāng)村，而他們卻越來越貧瘠，更加艱難。羅馬的城市長老聲稱他們的貧窮使他們強大堅韌。那么，你明白我的意思吧。
保守的羅馬人認為希臘文化帶來了頹廢、冗長、懶惰和軟弱。盡管如此，受過教育的羅馬人仍會說和寫希臘語。
The Roman city elders claimed their poverty made them strong and tough. Well, you get the idea.
Conservative Romans believed Greek culture brought decadence, verbosity, laziness and softness. Even so, educated Romans spoke and wrote Greek.
為什么像坎帕尼亞人這樣無力保護自己財產(chǎn)的人可以享受意大利最肥沃的土地和一座配得上這片土地的城市，而勝利的軍隊卻要在干旱和瘟疫肆虐的土地上掙扎，或者忍受在羅馬等待他們的日益增長的利息所帶來的毀滅性后果呢？這些人投降并放棄力量，卻享受了那富饒美妙的鄉(xiāng)村，而他們卻越來越貧瘠，更加艱難。羅馬的城市長老聲稱他們的貧窮使他們強大堅韌。那么，你明白我的意思吧。
保守的羅馬人認為希臘文化帶來了頹廢、冗長、懶惰和軟弱。盡管如此，受過教育的羅馬人仍會說和寫希臘語。
So, the Romans held two opposing ideas about Greek culture, at the same time. They respected Greek culture, science and art but thought it was a corrupting influence as well. Here is a passage from the Life of Cato the Elder by Plutarch: Plutarch · Life of Cato the Elder
保守的羅馬人認為希臘文化帶來了頹廢、繁瑣、懶惰和軟弱。不過，受過教育的羅馬人會說和寫希臘語。因此，羅馬人對希臘文化有著兩種相反的看法。他們尊重希臘文化、科學和藝術(shù)，但同時也認為它是一種腐敗的影響。以下是普魯塔克的《老加圖的一生》中的一段話?！?/b>
保守的羅馬人認為希臘文化帶來了頹廢、繁瑣、懶惰和軟弱。不過，受過教育的羅馬人會說和寫希臘語。因此，羅馬人對希臘文化有著兩種相反的看法。他們尊重希臘文化、科學和藝術(shù)，但同時也認為它是一種腐敗的影響。以下是普魯塔克的《老加圖的一生》中的一段話?！?/b>
…their young men lay hold of Greek culture and consort with such admirable men. But Cato, at the very outset, when this zeal for discussion came pouring into the city, was distressed, fearing lest the young men, by giving this direction to their ambition, should come to love a reputation based on mere words more than one achieved by martial deeds.
…h(huán)e was wholly averse to philosophy, and made mock of all Greek culture and training, out of patriotic zeal. He says, for instance, that Socrates was a mighty prattler, who attempted, as best he could, to be his country's tyrant, by abolishing its customs, and by enticing his fellow citizens into opinions contrary to the laws.
….seeking to prejudice his son against Greek culture, he indulges in an utterance all too rash for his years, declaring, in the tone of a prophet or a seer, that Rome would lose her empire when she had become infected with Greek letters.? But time has certainly shown the emptiness of this ill-boding speech of his, for while the city was at the zenith of its empire, she made every form of Greek learning and culture her own.
……他們的年輕人接觸希臘文化并與這樣令人欽佩的人交往。但是，開篇時，卡托很煩惱，擔心年輕人性急的爭論熱潮會使他們更喜歡基于言辭而不是軍事行為所實現(xiàn)的聲望。
……他完全反對哲學，并因為愛國之情而嘲笑所有的希臘文化和訓練。例如，他說蘇格拉底很會嘮叨，試圖成為他的國家的暴君，通過廢除其習俗，將他的同胞引入與法律相反的觀點。
……試圖阻擋他兒子接受希臘文化，他發(fā)表了一種完全不怕年齡不夠的輕率言論，宣稱當羅馬被希臘字母所感染時，她將失去她的帝國。但時間肯定證明了他這種不吉利的言論的空洞，因為當城市處于帝國的巔峰時，它讓各種形式的希臘學問和文化成為自己的。
…h(huán)e was wholly averse to philosophy, and made mock of all Greek culture and training, out of patriotic zeal. He says, for instance, that Socrates was a mighty prattler, who attempted, as best he could, to be his country's tyrant, by abolishing its customs, and by enticing his fellow citizens into opinions contrary to the laws.
….seeking to prejudice his son against Greek culture, he indulges in an utterance all too rash for his years, declaring, in the tone of a prophet or a seer, that Rome would lose her empire when she had become infected with Greek letters.? But time has certainly shown the emptiness of this ill-boding speech of his, for while the city was at the zenith of its empire, she made every form of Greek learning and culture her own.
……他們的年輕人接觸希臘文化并與這樣令人欽佩的人交往。但是，開篇時，卡托很煩惱，擔心年輕人性急的爭論熱潮會使他們更喜歡基于言辭而不是軍事行為所實現(xiàn)的聲望。
……他完全反對哲學，并因為愛國之情而嘲笑所有的希臘文化和訓練。例如，他說蘇格拉底很會嘮叨，試圖成為他的國家的暴君，通過廢除其習俗，將他的同胞引入與法律相反的觀點。
……試圖阻擋他兒子接受希臘文化，他發(fā)表了一種完全不怕年齡不夠的輕率言論，宣稱當羅馬被希臘字母所感染時，她將失去她的帝國。但時間肯定證明了他這種不吉利的言論的空洞，因為當城市處于帝國的巔峰時，它讓各種形式的希臘學問和文化成為自己的。
It was not only Greek philosophers that he hated, but he was also suspicious of Greeks who practiced medicine at Rome. He had heard, it would seem, of Hippocrates' reply when the Great King of Persia consulted him, with the promise of a fee of many talents, namely, that he would never put his skill at the service of Barbarians who were enemies of Greece. He said all Greek physicians had taken a similar oath, and urged his son to beware of them all.
So yes, there was anti-Greek sentiment during the early and mid-Republic. However, it appeared to have disappeared after Rome conquered Greece and the Alexander successor kingdoms.
他不僅厭惡希臘哲學家，還懷疑在羅馬從事醫(yī)學的希臘人。他聽說過希波克拉底被波斯大王請教時的回答，承諾要支付數(shù)百個人才的報酬，即他不會將自己的技藝用于希臘敵對的野蠻人身上。他表示所有希臘醫(yī)生都發(fā)過類似的誓言，并敦促他的兒子警惕所有醫(yī)生。
因此，在共和國早期和中期存在反希臘情緒。然而，在羅馬征服希臘和亞歷山大的后繼王國之后，這種情緒似乎已經(jīng)消失了。
So yes, there was anti-Greek sentiment during the early and mid-Republic. However, it appeared to have disappeared after Rome conquered Greece and the Alexander successor kingdoms.
他不僅厭惡希臘哲學家，還懷疑在羅馬從事醫(yī)學的希臘人。他聽說過希波克拉底被波斯大王請教時的回答，承諾要支付數(shù)百個人才的報酬，即他不會將自己的技藝用于希臘敵對的野蠻人身上。他表示所有希臘醫(yī)生都發(fā)過類似的誓言，并敦促他的兒子警惕所有醫(yī)生。
因此，在共和國早期和中期存在反希臘情緒。然而，在羅馬征服希臘和亞歷山大的后繼王國之后，這種情緒似乎已經(jīng)消失了。
By then, the Romans had settled on the assessment that Greeks were free to be clever…while they fought, conquered and commanded. Vegetius summarized:
當時，羅馬人已經(jīng)認定希臘人可以自由地展示他們的才華... 而在戰(zhàn)爭、征服和指揮方面則由羅馬人來負責。維吉修斯總結(jié)道：
當時，羅馬人已經(jīng)認定希臘人可以自由地展示他們的才華... 而在戰(zhàn)爭、征服和指揮方面則由羅馬人來負責。維吉修斯總結(jié)道：
We find that the Romans owed the conquest of the world to no other cause than continual military training, exact observance of discipline in their camps and unwearied cultivation of the other arts of war. Without these, what chance would the inconsiderable numbers of the Roman armies have had against the multitudes of the Gauls? Or with what success would their small size have been opposed to the prodigious stature of the Germans? The Spaniards surpassed us not only in numbers, but in physical strength. We were always inferior to the Africans in wealth and unequal to them in deception and stratagem. And the Greeks, indisputably, were far superior to us in skill in arts and all kinds of knowledge.
So, the Roman view was, let the Greeks be clever. Romans ruled.
我們發(fā)現(xiàn)羅馬人征服世界的原因不在于其他因素，而在于他們不斷進行的軍事訓練、在營地中嚴格遵守紀律以及不懈地培養(yǎng)其他的戰(zhàn)爭藝術(shù)。若沒有這些，羅馬軍隊那微不足道的人數(shù)又如何能對抗高盧人的軍群呢？相較于德國人巨大的身材，在數(shù)量方面更勝一籌的西班牙人在體力上也超越了我們。在財富方面，我們總是不如非洲人，也難以與他們在欺騙和策略方面抗衡。而希臘人，在藝術(shù)和各種知識技能方面無可爭議地遠遠優(yōu)于我們。因此，羅馬人的觀點是，讓希臘人聰明去吧，羅馬人才是統(tǒng)治者。
So, the Roman view was, let the Greeks be clever. Romans ruled.
我們發(fā)現(xiàn)羅馬人征服世界的原因不在于其他因素，而在于他們不斷進行的軍事訓練、在營地中嚴格遵守紀律以及不懈地培養(yǎng)其他的戰(zhàn)爭藝術(shù)。若沒有這些，羅馬軍隊那微不足道的人數(shù)又如何能對抗高盧人的軍群呢？相較于德國人巨大的身材，在數(shù)量方面更勝一籌的西班牙人在體力上也超越了我們。在財富方面，我們總是不如非洲人，也難以與他們在欺騙和策略方面抗衡。而希臘人，在藝術(shù)和各種知識技能方面無可爭議地遠遠優(yōu)于我們。因此，羅馬人的觀點是，讓希臘人聰明去吧，羅馬人才是統(tǒng)治者。
評論翻譯
很贊 ( 1 )
收藏
The mere fact that Julius Caesar’s last words (“You Brutus”) while dying were pronounced by him in Greek (because he had a Greek nurse from boyhood) is enough proof of the influence that the Greek language (and by extension the Greek culture) exercised on Rome.
僅僅是因為愷撒大帝臨終前說的最后一句話（“是你嗎,布魯圖!”）是用希臘語說的（因為他從小就有一名希臘護士），這就足以證明希臘語言（以及希臘文化）對羅馬的影響。
Right, ancient Roman elites were deeply, hellenised, so to say; ancient Greek was commonly spoken amongst them, the Romans conquered the world by the strength of their legions, the Greeks conquered entire world by the strength of their culture, with no ancient Greek heritage Western Civilisation had never come to light and it could never gain world supremacy since with no Greek Philosophy, Literature, Fine Arts, Architecture, Science most of human mankind would be still in the caves, just for instance Euclid’s “The Elements” that dates back some 2300 years ago is the ground of entire Mathematics, i hope that Greek people remind this often.
古羅馬精英深深希臘化，可以這么說；古希臘語在他們中間是普遍使用的，羅馬人通過軍團的力量征服了世界，而希臘人則憑借他們文化的力量征服了整個世界。如果沒有古希臘的遺產(chǎn)，西方文明就不會出現(xiàn)，也永遠無法取得世界的主導地位，因為如果沒有希臘哲學、文學、美術(shù)、建筑和科學等方面的貢獻，大部分人類仍然生活在洞穴里。例如，歐幾里得的《幾何原本》，它的歷史可以追溯到大約2300年前，是整個數(shù)學的基礎(chǔ)，我希望希臘人經(jīng)常提醒自己這一點。
Romans they had the best army of the antiquity.. but they spread Roman Civilization on the three continents with the foundation of cities with all the infrastructure tipical of Rome
The Forum.. Senate.. Written Laws. Roads.. Baths.. Theatre…Fire brigade.. police department
Aqueducts.. Postal service etc etc
In Rome even a slave or a gladiator can gain his freedom.
I read something about the Romans that copied the Roman numerals from the Greeks…I am really astonished.
羅馬人擁有古代最強大的軍隊，但他們通過建立具有羅馬特色的城市基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施，在三個大陸上傳播了羅馬文明。例如論壇、參議院、書面法律、道路、浴場、劇院、消防隊和警察部門、引渡水管和郵政服務(wù)等等。在羅馬，甚至一個奴隸或角斗士也可以獲得自由。我讀到一些關(guān)于羅馬人從希臘人那里抄襲羅馬數(shù)字的事情，我感到非常驚訝。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
I read the famous Wheelock’s Latin and several books in Latin, and I know quite a bit of ancient history. Romans were afraid that Greek manners, Greek luxury and Greek effeminacy would vitiate their morals and remove the simplicity, frugality, toughness and commonsense for which they were renowned.
In fact, after Rome conquered Carthage and Greece, something far worse started to occur. Vast sums of money that had previously been shared between other states, suddenly went to Rome itself. Gigantic fortunes were made, and this led to political corruption, and bribery, which in turn weakened the political system. Also, the army which was now so successful, was increasingly a threat to the republic
我讀過著名的《韋洛克拉丁語》和幾本拉丁語書籍，我對古代歷史也有相當了解。羅馬人擔心希臘風氣、奢華和柔弱會玷污他們的道德觀念，并破壞了他們以簡樸、節(jié)儉、堅韌和常識而聞名的生活方式。
事實上，在羅馬征服迦太基和希臘之后，更糟糕的事情開始發(fā)生。先前曾共享給其他國家的巨額資金突然流向了羅馬本身。大量財富被創(chuàng)造出來，這導致政治上的腐敗和賄賂，反過來又削弱了政治體系。此外，如今非常成功的軍隊逐漸成為共和國的威脅。
Also it must be mentioned that etruscans and rome start to flourish after troy fall to the spartans.romilus and romios father(founters of rome) was aentas that he was a trojan and his mother was aphrodite a greek godess.Trojans descent from 1 of the 4 main pre greek races that later formed the Hellenes . So romans where of greek descent . In a way rome continued alexanders the great work,to spread the greek culture and civilize the barbarians.alexander did it east and the romans west
還應(yīng)該提到的是，伊特魯斯卡人和羅馬人在特洛伊淪陷于斯巴達之后開始繁榮發(fā)展。羅馬城的創(chuàng)始人羅密烏斯的父親是阿涅亞斯，他是特洛伊人，母親是希臘女神阿芙羅狄蒂。特洛伊人是四個主要前希臘種族之一，后來成為了希臘人的一部分。因此，羅馬人是希臘血統(tǒng)的。從某種意義上說，羅馬延續(xù)了亞歷山大大帝的工作，傳播希臘文化并文明野蠻人。亞歷山大大帝向東方傳播，而羅馬向西方傳播。
I am really fed up with this vision of the history…for some people nobody invented anything but just copied from other countries…I found this attitude quite ridiculous…Romans they copied from the Greeks that copied from the Egyptians or the Sumerians
Or by the Nubians according to the afrocentric view of the history.
Some people are claiming that the Persians were more civilized than the Greeks…without solid evidence on written papers or clay.. Etc etc etc
Well I have a different view of the history
How come nobody mentioned the first great European civilization.. the Minoan Civilization on the island of Crete parallel to the first Egyptian dinastie of 3200 B.C.?
And then the Mycenaean Civilization on Greek mainland?
我真的對這種歷史觀感到厭倦了……對于某些人來說，似乎沒有人發(fā)明了任何東西，只是從其他國家抄襲……我發(fā)現(xiàn)這種態(tài)度非?；闹嚒_馬人從希臘人那里抄襲，希臘人從埃及人或蘇美爾人那里抄襲，或是根據(jù)非洲中心史觀是從努比亞人那里抄襲。有些人聲稱波斯人比希臘人更文明……沒有實際證據(jù)，只是寫在紙上或粘在泥上等等等等。嗯，我對歷史有不同的看法。怎么沒人提到第一個偉大的歐洲文明……克里特島上的米諾斯文明，與公元前3200年的第一批埃及王朝并行？接著是希臘大陸上的邁錫尼文明？
You didn’t mention the Olympics. Greek — but also very physical. Held in very high esteem by the Romans! That ego-freak Nero fancied himself a great chariot racer. So he ORDERED the Greeks to hold an out-of-year Olympics just so he could go, enter and be crowned CHAMPION. (All rigged, as usual.) — Suetonius
你沒有提到奧林匹克運動會。希臘人的奧林匹克運動會非常注重體育，而這一點也深受羅馬人的推崇！那個自我膨脹的恩帝羅認為自己是一個偉大的戰(zhàn)車賽手，所以他下令希臘人舉辦一次非正式的奧林匹克運動會，只為了讓他可以參加比賽并成為冠軍（一如既往地作弊）——《蘇埃托尼烏斯傳》。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Envy is something that even the Romans experienced. Thank God they did not have Social Media at the time.
嫉妒是連羅馬人都經(jīng)歷過的情感。感謝上帝，他們當時沒有社交媒體。
The Etruscans wrote from right to left with older Pheonician letters. They likely started to write independent from the Greeks.
伊特魯里亞人用較早的腓尼基字母從右到左書寫。他們可能開始獨立于希臘人書寫。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
The Greeks initially also wrote from right to left, from top to bottom and boustrophedon
it was only after the fifth century that they kept the “l(fā)eft to right” writing -firstly probably in Athens - and of course it took decades to be adopted by the remote colonies and dialects
希臘人最初也是從右到左、從上到下書寫，并采用來回曲折排版方式。直到公元五世紀，他們才開始采用“從左到右”的書寫方式——可能最先是在雅典——當然這需要幾十年時間才能被遙遠的殖民地和方言所接受。
“They likely started to write independent from the Greeks”.. You’ve drawn a major conclusion by stating one of the characteristics without bothering to look any further.. Did you not see that the Eubean alphabet which we know (do you need bibliography?) was used for the etruscan alphabet was written from right to left?
“他們可能開始獨立于希臘人書寫”這句話，你只是通過陳述一個特征就得出了一個重要結(jié)論。難道你沒有看到我們所知道的歐巴伊字母表被用于書寫伊特魯里亞字母時也是從右到左書寫的嗎？（如果需要參考資料，請告訴我）
Outnumbered Romans ? Rome lost thousand soldiers during Hannibal campaing and still were able to rise new armies and destroy Carthage , Rome while fighting Hannibal opened new wars so no Romans were not few in number as this guy wrotten
羅馬人數(shù)量不足？在漢尼拔與坎尼之戰(zhàn)中，羅馬失去了成千上萬的士兵，但仍然能夠組建新的軍隊并摧毀迦太基。在與漢尼拔作戰(zhàn)時，羅馬還開辟了新的戰(zhàn)爭，因此羅馬人并不人數(shù)稀少，就像這個人所說的那樣。
For a segment of the Roman historians, absolutely. In particular, Livy does it throughout his history. Every chance he gets to take a cheap shot at the Greeks he seems to take it. And although they were Greek, they were Eastern and that is close enough, there are moment in Aeneid where Virgil dwells on some of the more vain features of the culture.
對于一部分羅馬歷史學家來說，絕對是這樣。特別是在他的歷史著作中，利維 Livy 就是這么做的。每當他有機會挖苦希臘人時，他似乎總是會抓住這個機會。雖然他們是希臘人，但他們是東方人，這已經(jīng)足夠接近了，在彌爾頓的《埃涅阿斯紀》中也有一些關(guān)于該文化更虛榮特點的描寫。
Why then then “graeca sunt, non leguntur?
Why Latin persisted in Western Europe for many centuries and gave rise to several modern languages (except Romanian, of course), while Greek disappeared not only from the Middle East, Asia Minor and North Africa, but also from most of the Balkans, and across Eastern Europe, Cyrillic writing and Old Bulgarian (Church Slavonic) idiom spread instead?
那么，“graeca sunt, non leguntur”(希臘文必須學，但不必讀)為什么會出現(xiàn)呢？為什么拉丁語在西歐存續(xù)了幾個世紀并催生了幾種現(xiàn)代語言（當然不包括羅馬尼亞語），而希臘語不僅在中東、小亞細亞和北非消失了，而且在大部分巴爾干地區(qū)和整個東歐地區(qū)，西里爾字母和舊保加利亞語（教會斯拉夫語）逐漸傳播？
To some degree it was. The Greeks appreciated things like fine art, architecture, rhetoric, plays, etc.
Some Romans appreciated these things too. Conservative Romans were notoriously blunt and simple and viewed such things with suspicion.
For example, Cato had a strong dislike of Scipio Africanus and often criticized him for his open appreciation of Greek culture.
Yet, even Cato must have admitted, Scipio was an excellent soldier and innovative leader of men. Appreciation of Greek things did make a person, wimpy. Yet Cato kept on claiming corruption.
However, I sense a country folk “glorification” of their simplicity and primitive state…and claim it as virtue. Much of it was utter nonsense.
在某種程度上是這樣的。希臘人欣賞精美的藝術(shù)、建筑、修辭、戲劇等。有些羅馬人也欣賞這些東西。保守的羅馬人以其粗糙和簡單而出名，并對這些事物持懷疑態(tài)度。例如，卡托(Cato)非常不喜歡斯基比奧·阿非利卡努斯(Scipio Africanus)，經(jīng)常批評他對希臘文化的公開欣賞。但是，即使是卡托也不得不承認，斯基比奧是一個出色的士兵和創(chuàng)新的領(lǐng)導者。欣賞希臘事物并不會使人軟弱。然而，卡托一直聲稱這是腐敗的表現(xiàn)。我感覺到了某種鄉(xiāng)村人對自己簡單和原始狀態(tài)的 "美化" ，并將其視為美德，但其中許多都是無稽之談。
While I have no intention to antagonize the answer provided by Mr. Archie, who argued that traditional Romans complained about the Greek language, I understand that most Romans, specially those who lived during the late Roman Republic, and particularly the Roman Empire subjects simply adored literally anything that was “Greek.” In fact, most of its nobility either employed Greek intellectuals or acquired those who had been sold into Slavery to become tutors of their their children (including some of the girls such as Livia, the second wife of Emperor Augustus Caesar). Speaking of Augustus, he often included Greek Orators (some of which Philosophers) to entertain the imperial family during his nightly extravagant banquets. Most importantly, since the time after Rome conquered Greece, they fully absorbed the rich, ancient Hellenic culture, including its architecture style and, particularly their (mythologic) religion, where they have only changed the divinities’ names (such as Zeus-Jupiter, Hera-Minerva, Poseidon-Neptune, Aphrodite-Venus, etc.)
Finally, it should be noted that, the southern portion of the Italic peninsula had become a region dotted with small Greek colonies, which was eventually incorporated into Roman territory under the name “Magna Grecia.”
雖然我沒有任何敵意反駁 Archie 先生提供的答案，他認為傳統(tǒng)的羅馬人抱怨希臘語言，但我認為大多數(shù)羅馬人，特別是生活在羅馬共和國末期和羅馬帝國時期的人們，簡直崇拜一切來自“希臘”的東西。事實上，大部分貴族都雇用希臘知識分子或購買那些被賣為奴隸的人來擔任他們孩子的家庭教師，包括一些女孩，如奧古斯都大帝的第二任妻子莉薇婭。說到奧古斯都，他經(jīng)常邀請希臘演講家（其中一些是哲學家）在他夜間的奢華宴會上為皇室家族提供娛樂。最重要的是，自從羅馬征服希臘以來，他們完全吸收了豐富的、古老的希臘文化，包括其建筑風格和特別是他們（神話）宗教，其中羅馬只是更改了神祇的名字（如宙斯-朱庇特、赫拉-米涅瓦、波塞冬-海神、阿芙羅蒂-維納斯等等）。
最后，值得注意的是，意大利南部半島已成為遍布小希臘殖民地的地區(qū)，最終被并入羅馬領(lǐng)土，名為“大希臘”。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Guanchen Wang
Sure did. There was a famous story about Tiberius trying to remove Greek influences from Latin but because there was no Latin word to replace the phrase “gold inlay” he banned any statue with gold inlay in them.
的確如此。有一個著名的故事，講述了提比略試圖從拉丁語中刪除希臘影響的故事，但由于沒有拉丁文單詞可以替代“嵌金”這個短語，他禁止任何嵌有金子的雕像。
As far as I know the Romans were super satisfied for the Greek contribution and “vaccination”(to be actual and up to date…) of their civilization not only for the language but for every aspect of this life on the planet!!!
Their contact with the Greeks gave them a gratis upgrade(Microsoft would had asked trillions for that upgrade…) to higher level of their existence in general. The ancient Romans were conscious and thank full about this fact.
It is only the modern Romans(and the most of the westerners, included, today) that start to forget their origin of their civilization… .
據(jù)我所知，羅馬人對希臘對他們的文明做出的貢獻和“接種”（為了保持現(xiàn)實和最新...）非常滿意，不僅僅是語言，而是生活的方方面面！他們與希臘人的聯(lián)系使他們的整體存在水平得到了免費升級（如果是微軟就要索價數(shù)萬億...）。古羅馬人對這個事實是有意識和感激的。只有現(xiàn)代羅馬人（包括今天的大多數(shù)西方人）才開始忘記他們文明的起源...。
There certainly were the powers that mistrusted and maybe feared the Greeks but they took the view of Cato, “l(fā)et them “prattle on”, action is what counts, and he does have a point, I imagine the Greeks during the 300 years of the Hellenistic period were too busy looking for Eudaimonia and wisdom, the Romans were more interested in conquering other places and Greece was one of the first, food for thought, If you want to have peace be prepared for war.
當然有些勢力不信任并可能害怕希臘人，但他們采取了卡托的觀點，“讓他們空談”，行動才是最重要的，他說得也有道理。我想，在希臘的三百年的希臘化時期，希臘人忙于尋求幸福和智慧，而羅馬人更感興趣的是征服其他地方，而希臘則是第一個被征服的國家。這值得深思，如果你想擁有和平，就要準備戰(zhàn)爭。
Very nice!
I have heard that Romans treated their slaves very harshly. But even after Romans conquered the Greeks, they employed Greek tutors for their Roman children to teach them Greek lessons. That's very interesting. With this logic, I think that Romans might have not treated the Greeks very harshly like to those Celtics, though they have politically conquered the Greeks.
In this case, I think the cultural conquering of the Romans by the Greeks, is highly significant.
非常好！我聽說羅馬人對待自己的奴隸非常殘酷。但即使在羅馬人征服希臘后，他們也雇用了希臘家庭教師來教導他們的羅馬孩子學習希臘語課程，這非常有趣。按照這種邏輯，我認為羅馬人可能并沒有像對待凱爾特人那樣殘酷地對待希臘人，盡管他們在政治上征服了希臘。在這種情況下，我認為希臘人通過文化征服羅馬人，具有極其重要的意義。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處